Anxiety Pod!
01.26.15 | Share: Share on Twitter Share on Facebook
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Totally Married Podcast
Episode 186
Happy Monday! Elizabeth and Andy discuss the end of Totally Laime plus Andy’s prediction that Elizabeth will smoke in the next six months before answering listener questions about how to spice up ones love life with a long term partner (and whether or not that can/should involve threesomes), how to handle your partner’s baby mama drama, what thoughts Elizabeth and Andy have on pursuing creative careers and entrepreneurship, and lastly, should a highschool student make the move on his crush when his time is running out? Enjoy!
22 Comments!
I can’t believe I’m commenting on this, since I’m 40 and married, but I found myself mentally shouting, “Listen to Andy!” during the advice to the Junior in high school. I still vividly remember all the “friends” who surprised me by trying to kiss me out of the blue. And, since I didn’t meet my husband until I was 30 and dated a lot in the mean time, I remember when a maybe friend maybe not at age 28 reached over and held my hand in the movie theater. It was super hot because it meant we’d be making out later, but I had 90 minutes of movie anticipation.
I agree you have to make a move after you feel out the situation, but I think what a lot of guys have to learn over time is how to feel out the situation. If you brush up against her, does she pull away? (if so, no kiss yet) If you’re sitting next to her and your knees touch, does she leave her knee there? If so, go for the hand hold. Then the kiss will follow soon.
Usually I agree with Elizabeth’s advice, and I think you guys landed in the same place, but in this case, don’t dismiss the hand hold. It doesn’t mean you’ll walk around that way for weeks like you’re in junior high, but it’s a helpful green light.
I love all the Totally podcasts. As someone who is pretty constantly dehydrated and only drink when I’m really thirsty, I didn’t imagine I’d be into TBASH, but I love that one too! The beverage profile is the best.
Ok dying…of laughter. Elizabeth, when you said “maybe massage her shoulders” I said “ewwww!” out loud immediately. Lol don’t massage her shoulders! Maybe I’m just having flashbacks to touchy feely uncomfortable dates…
And hand holding is the best :).
this is to the writer inner that has drama with the boyfriends ex. First off, Andy and Elizabeth, I know you were well meaning with your advice but take to from a step mom don’t do it. Especially not the letter. I know you mean well but this is great advice for a rational person. These situations are rarely with rational people.
First, and this seems harsh but do not make contact with her. No matter what she says about you or anyone else. When the kids eventually bring it up, and they will (I had, “my mom thinks your a Bitch” back before I knew what I was doing as a step parent. I said “I’m sorry she feels that way.” They asked if I was mad and my response was “she is entitled to her opinion of me and all I can hope is that in time she will seem me different.” Wow right? Not sure where that came from but it cemented and awesome start to my relationship with my step sons.
I am going to regretfully tell you that they are not your kids and legally you have no right to be at there performances. It’s harsh and unkind but a lawyer will tell you the same thing. If she has requested that you do not show up then honor her request. All that going will do is cause drama in a safe place for those kids. It is 100% about those kids not at all about what you or your boyfrined wants. Sounds harsh but it truly is meant to protect you and the kids.
I agree that you never ever talk about the kids’ mom when they are around. That includes your kids too. Word spreads and can become extremely damaging.
The only place you can control is your own home. Be a good role model. Listen to what they want but explain that you can’t come to there things in the best way possible that isn’t a lie but doesn’t paitnt their mom in a bad light. It’s hard but in the end they will respect you more for it.
Being a step a parent is the hardest most thankless job out there.
I completely disagree with the “you have no right to be at their performances” statement. Attending a performance, unless the girlfriend has some sort of felonious probation regarding children, is completely within the rights of the children’s father and therefore hers as his partner.
The mom is not the only parent to the kids, nor does she have sole dominion over their activities unless said activities occur in her home / on her property. The dad is 50% of the parents those children have and has every right to bring his new significant other to performances and what not. Dad has family A and mom has family B - the families are their own units and happen to have children in common.
Of course we don’t know the legal arrangement of custody or jurisdiction, but there are very few LEGAL situation where a parent cannot bring their sig other along for visits, games, performances, etc. Just because mom is crapping her pants about it doesn’t make it a legal issue.
Now, depending on legal status and state, new girlfriend/stepmom might have troubles registering kids for school or health insurance or something but we’re not talking about that. We’re talking about dad bringing her to school performances and baseball games.
The key to these situations is that dad is in charge of the business that has to be discussed with mom, not stepmom (this isn’t always how things turn out, I know some step families that literally get along so well that they ALL spend holidays together - crazy, huh?!). DAD is in charge of communicating with mom re: pick up at time A at place B, etc and needs to fully manage that situation with mom and any legal / court stuff. This includes letting mom know that he is not interested in her opinions about his new girlfriend, that if she has business regarding the children to discuss he is happy to engage with her but otherwise she can blow it out her educated booty hole.
It’s perfectly fine to write the letter, just make sure it is very carefully worded, NOT passive aggressive or implying anything, etc. I think if the writer-inner has any doubt about her ability to write the letter to forego it, though. If one can avoid providing ammunition to people who have lashed out in the past, I think one should. “You can’t win a fight with a junkyard dog”.
Another thing - dad needs to stop telling new girlfriend about the horrible things mom says about her. Well, he needs to stop listening, which I’ve already covered above, but he REALLY needs to not pass on any info that is hurtful just for the sake of being hurtful. It’s not necessary - it just hurts girlfriend and kids can overhear, etc. Ditch it.
These situations happen between rational people all the time. Rational people can and do become irrational when it comes to situations that involve their children. Mom is defensive, jealous, having a hard time, whatever. Sometimes these people calm down with time and sometimes they don’t. It would behoove her and her children to turn it down a few notches and let’s hope she does.
See, I felt the same way before I became a step parent. He has a right to be at things, he should be but she does not. Not trying to be harsh because I know it hurts but they aren’t her kids. The BM (biological mom) can say she can’t be there. The BM can’t say the BF can’t be there but the GF has no legal rights.
Besides the thing you aren’t looking at is the kids. School is a safe place from drama. It is a place the kids shouldn’t dread because of conflict. So pick your battles. Do you really want them, there friends, there teachers seeing the conflict? It’s hard enough being a kid.
I have dealt with a BM (biological mom) that seemed rational until she flipped out and we lost contact with the kids for over a year. Sure legally she can’t do that but that didn’t stop here. Then you have to find her, file papers go through mediation and get another legal document saying you can see the kids. Legal or not it happens. These are the same moms that give BFs a bad name even when they are trying.
When I first became a step momI joined a group for step moms and have heard the same stories over and over. If she was married to the BF then she would have a few more rights but in reality she has no rights. And in the end she needs to think about what is best for the kids.
In her own house GF and BF have control. BM can not control anything there as long as GF isn’t on felonious probation. To use your words.
And about the letter thing. Ok sure, she can do it but do you honestly think it will help. The one I wrote, that I worked on for a few weeks had several people read to make sure it couldn’t be turned upside down and it was still ripped apart by my step sons mom.
Sure I don’t know the exact situation or legal agreement in the custody agreement but I do know from experience and the experience of others dealing with the same thing.
I can see the GF avoiding kid activities as her own preference or if she isn’t able to be assertive with the bio mom and can’t ignore her or whatever. But the bio mom’s behavior - whatever it may be - is HER own problem and will come back to bite her. Her kids will hate her for being a rag and making every situation about HER regardless of what GF does. What SHE puts her own children through is not something GF can control no matter how you want to rationalize it.
You can’t control other people and living your life with no boundaries and walking on eggshells because so and so is “nutty” when you happen to be are around is ridiculous. GF is not the cause - bio mom’s immaturity and general asshattery is. Girlfriend is there to love, support, watch kids. She’s not there to claim I AM NOW THE BIO MOM OF THESE KIDS AND YOU ARE TRAAAASH. GF shouldn’t even look at bio mom. Completely ignore her if she has to. She should focus on what she is there for. Hang with the dad and watch the kids and then call it a night. Be respectful of whatever parent’s night it is for home time and don’t barge in for hugs and kisses when they are going home with mama. It’s TOTALLY doable and I’ve seen a crap load of people do it and do it well.
I’m absolutely thinking about this kids in this situation. I work with some of the most vulnerable people in the community on stuff like this all the time (foster children, bio vs step vs adoptive vs foster families, etc). Guess what? Can’t hide crazy from kids. If mom acts like a nut, it’s on her. Kids aren’t dumb. Also, who is to say the kids aren’t wondering why this lady who supposedly loves their dad and is supposedly going to be their stepmom does give enough of a crap about them to show up to their events? Also, if you think mom only shows her jackass side when girlfriend is around, I got news: nope.
It’s very possible and doable to not engage with a jackass bio mom when you are in a serious, longterm relationship with bio dad. If there is no parenting plan, that’s a serious problem. If bio dad has barely any custody and mom screws with his visits out of spite, take her to court immediately. If she engages in custodial interference, call 911. Amber alert time. Yeah, you’re going to have to go to court over sharing custody more than once most likely (in most situations), Welcome to co-parenting land.
I really do appreciate what you are saying. And that is the way life should be. But when it comes to dealing with parents being seperated it’s a slippery one sided slope.
Kids, for the most part, will always love their mothers. No matter how crazy they can be. Ok, maybe 30 years down the line they will see the truth but the drama of forcing yourself into a situation can be far more instantly tramatizing. You can hide crazy from kids when it comes to their own parents. They want to believe that their parents love them unconditionally and you never know, this BM might be thinking she is doing the best thing for her children.
As far as the calling 911 if she doesn’t comply with visitation. I can tell you what that got my husband. “Well, once you find her and the kids, we will serve her papers.” No Amber allert, nothing on her record. No stop in child support. Infact even if child support knew where she was they wouldn’t tell the father (but I think that goes both ways for safety.) That situation is extremely one sided. The only way they will step in is if there is immediate danger for the children. For example, the BM has a history of drug abuse or violance. I doubt that is the case here.
I would love to live in your rational world. But I know fathers who have gone tens of thousands in debt just to get the smallest details changed. Sure some states, some courts, some judges are changing their views on fathers rights but in the end… We aren’t there yet.
Keep hoping and fighting for your ideal world. Maybe someday it will come true.
Ok I’ll live in an “ideal world” and you can continue to be a victim.
Sooo… the sex question sounded like it came from me! I was listening to it and was laughing at the similarities, except I am 28, just had a baby and am pregnant with our second and have had what you may call a sexual revolution over the last year. My advice is work on it slowly. He may never be convinced, but the fact that you communicate about it at all is an awesome step. There may have to be some compromise though. That’s what marriage is. If it gets to a point where you are completely unsatisfied, I think E&A’s advice about counseling is a great idea. Good luck!
I think the high school kid should just ask her out on a date. Invite her to a concert or something else going on around town. When you invite her, you have to call it a date. None of that “hanging out” or “talking” nonsense. If she declines, you know she’s not interested. If she accepts, then try to hold her hand or kiss her while you’re together. Don’t pull a sneak attack on her while you’re hanging out as friends. If she isn’t into you romantically, there is no way she’s going to forget you made a move.
Yep, be bold. Just ask her. Girls like confidence. You obviously don’t want to be arrogant but sometimes guys can pussy-foot around so much that girls that may have been interested initially can become turned-off by a lack of initiative. Go for it my man!
I think I’m of the opposite opinion on whether “most guys” would object to a girlfriend suggesting a threesome. I think this scenario, in which the girlfriend is the one that is trying to set up this encounter, would be pretty damn awesome to most guys, especially at 24 years old. I can see how some men would be hesitant if she wanted to bring another dude into the situation but she is wanting to bring in a girl. A far less threatening scenario to a lot of guys.
In the case of the writer-inner however, the boyfriend just doesn’t seem to be into the idea. That’s certainly a reasonable reaction. Threesomes are kind of a big deal and if handled improperly can leave one or both partners in a pretty bad place. I would suggest a doing a Google search on “how to best handle a threesome” to get some tips on how to avoid some of the pitfalls. Armed with this information float the idea to the boyfriend one more time and if after you laid it all out there and he still balks, then you’ll just have to accept that it isn’t going to happen, at least not right now.
Lastly, I agree with Elizabeth that perhaps you and your guy just aren’t sexually compatible. You don’t go into details but you just say the sex is “bad” and unsatisfying for both of you. Since it’s hard to give advice on how to fix “bad” I’ll just say that if having a frank discussion about sex with your boyfriend is difficult or he’s just reluctant to discuss such things, then maybe a therapist is an option.
Ultimately every person has different wants and desires in the bedroom. At some point you will have to decide how important having your wants and desires sync up with your boyfriend’s really is to you. In other words, If having a subpar sex life worth it if it means being with this guy? It seems life a pretty heavy price to pay, especially considering how young you guys are.
The good news is these things can be fixable. Good luck to you!
I kinda agree Jack. Most of my guys friends especially at that age were into it. But it wasn’t for all of them
Ok, don’t want to be judged by this. But my husband and I did this after we were married. We talked a lot about it before hand. He was really the only partner I have ever had and I was curious. But he was into it. We found the right opportunity and took it.
Would we ever do it again, no. Was it bad for our relationship, no. But could it have been bad, OH HECK YES! Not to mention the risk of STDs at our age. Protection was used but still.
Do not push him into it. If he isn’t into it, let it go. You can talk about it and try to convince him with clear ground rules ect but if he doesn’t want to, it will ruin your relationship.
There are plenty of other ways to spice up your relationship besides adding another person. I know how Elizabeth feels about porn but for us it does help in the bedroom sometimes. It’s more for me then my busband. Honesty we really enjoyed some of the Katie Morgan’s HBO educational stuff. She is so cute and she really, honestly enjoys what she does. Anymore a good rated R movie with the right mood will help.
There are toys and thing that can add spice but communication is key. You need to have an honest conversation about what you want and listen to what he wants.
Threesome are horrible!! They defeat the purpose of what a joining sex is supposed to represent. I’ve had 3 in different combos. No Bueno:((
LOL O-Shen… you never disappoint w/ your comments.
Alia, ditto!! Ur da bomb!:))
Hi guys! I just finished listening to the entire totally married archive, I have loved having you in my ears when going for walks, cleaning the house, driving, you name it. And confession time: I will often listen with one ear bud in and my phone hidden in my shirt while I play with my two year old. She can do play dough for an hour and be totally mezmerized. I cannot, and podcasts are what keep me at the play dough table to assist or marvel at her creations. Give it a try with Baby Oprah!
Also, have you listened to this week’s This American Life all about internet trolls and people complaining about women’s voices on the radio? Elizabeth, I can’t wait to hear your take on it!
To the writer-inner with “baby mama drama,” I’m writing a response as someone who has a lot of experience with my parents’ girlfriends/boyfriends/new husbands/new wives. I don’t want to come off as being offensive, but I see it from the kid’s point of view (I’m an adult now but these issues still come up for us from time to time).
First off, my parents’ new significant others throughout my life were never there for me. They existed purely for the entertainment and companionship of my parents. They probably meant well and I’m sure they all anticipated on being around forever but none of them have lasted long. You aren’t married to this man and you aren’t a step-parent to his children. You sleep with their dad and you live in his house. Hopefully, they can create a relationship with you as time passes, but know that you are limited in that regard.
Also, when I was a kid, I HATED my parents’ significant others coming to school performances, softballs games, awards ceremonies, etc. I didn’t feel extra love or support. I just noticed the cold shoulders, the side-eyes, the tension in the air. I felt the pressure to not acknowledge my dad’s girlfriend lest I piss off my mom or hug my mom’s new husband lest I piss off my dad. It’s a lot of pressure for young kids to navigate. Sounds like in your situation that it might be better for the kids if you bowed out of those events and make it less tense for them. Tell them that you support them and wish you could be there (and don’t ever say that you weren’t there because their mother was) but don’t force them to suffer through something that is supposed to pleasant just because you have something to prove to their mother.
Just wanted to chime in on the hunger issue. Elizabeth and Andy are exactly right. Often obese children are often nutritionally starved. Since Elizabeth likes documentaries, you might like A Place at the Table.
Elizabeth, I don’t think you are necessarily sex negative. But I do think you are incredibly Hetero-normative, so when you get a question about people having alternative sexual interests you don’t understand or think that many people are into that. I know plenty of people with kids who are in the Lifestyle (swingers), and they do it successfully, hello babysitters! some swingers are poly, some poly people can be swingers. Then there are open relationships, which isn’t necesarily poly. There are so many different relationship styles to choose from. And honestly this girl is so young and too unhappy in her sex life, she can either get permission to date outside of the relationship as either a polyamorous relationship, or a mono-poly if he is monogamous and ok with her having other relationships or open where she can have sexual partners but nothing serious. Also, threesomes are fun, you just have to have realize there will be a time where you aren’t the center of attention and make yourself useful. I think it’s about expectations. And as Dan Savage would say “all relationships fail, until one doesn’t” life is too short to be sexually frustrated, it sounds like this girl has some fantasies and interests that won’t just go away with time. And btw, I’m a poly person in a happy, Loving triad. (Triad meaning the three of us are all in a relationship together equally) good luck. Also, I realize you(Elizabeth) are trying to understand alternative lifestyles.
Hi Rachel - thanks for this. You’re not wrong, I do think I’m so heteronormative that it’s hard to wrap my head around successful alternatives but I am aware that they exist and people make it work, which I try to make clear when these questions come up… In this case, it sounded like the writer inner wanted alternative experiences but the boyfriend/husband didn’t. Which I of course relate to him more, and think that if he feels that way, it should be respected as that’s how they entered the relationship. Totally agree that sexual compatibility is important, and life’s too short - but then, there are kids in their family which complicates things! It’s all complicated I guess… Frankly a heteronormative relationship feels complicated enough, honestly my hat’s off to you and others who pull off alternative sexual relationships successfully!
Thanks for responding to me! I think having kids definitely complicates their situation but if she’s feeling this way now, it won’t go away, they have been together for so long, they basically grew up together and maybe now she’s learning she has changed and grown. I’m certainly not the same person I was at 15 or 20. I hope she finds happiness and he finds the vanilla girl of his dreams!