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Haunted House For Rent!

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Totally Married Podcast

Episode 199

Elizabeth and Andy segue from dreams to haunted mansions (shout out to Elizabeth’s mom and the Demenil Mansion in St. Louis!) to why Ruby is wearing lentil soup before they dive into a bunch of awesome questions. They give their unqualified advice on whether to go for your goals even if it means suffering financially for a while, how to handle a mom friend who oscillates from needy to flakey, whether or not to spay/neuter your pup (YES TO THAT!) how to handle the fallout after a miscarriage and lack of communication in a marriage, whether wedding etiquette requires a dinner out after the wedding, how to handle a rocky relationship with a bipolar, alcoholic mother, what to do about hurtful comments from the in-laws, and lastly how to handle a familial childcare situation when it may strain a sibling relationshp? Enjoy!

22 Comments!

Apia says:

Comment about the girl who wants to get pregnant after a miscarriage.

I have a child and had a miscarriage before.
I can tell you, please do not destroy your sex life by only thinking of conceiving a child. Have sex for fun and for intimacy with your partner. This is the best way to get pregnant. Sex by calendar is the worst, and very stressful on both partners. And intimacy is very important in a relationship. Having a child is hard on the sex life in the beginning, so enjoy it now!
This girl also seems to be rather young, in her twenties, there is lots of time to get pregnant. It happened before. It’s not always as easy as we would like it to be, but letting go is the best way make it happen.
A miscarriage is very sad, but lots of woman have to experience it and have healthy children after it.
Obsessing about it is not helpful!
The doctor told me after my miscarriage, lots of women have more pregnancies then children, it’s sadly quite normal.

Apia says:

Sometimes we have to accept that it will take more time, then we hoped. But a young woman can be quite relaxed about it. It’s different when you are, let’s say 42 and the chance of getting pregnant is rather low.

Elanor says:

I agree. Sounds like it is the only thing she can think about. She and her husband need to get into therapy or think of a way to communicate BEFORE trying again. Don’t think getting pregnant is going to suddenly bring your husband back to you, it will backfire.

JustZeek says:

first, find a support group of other women who have suffered a miscarriage. It’s devastating and no one will understand the way a mom who has gone through one will.

Second, stop pushing and find the love in your marriage again. You have to heal the resentment on both sides. I don’t know what lead to your husband being insensitive or if he is just that way naturally. But the more you push for having a child the harder it’s going to be to conceive and to handle pregnancy and parenthood. Like Elizabeth said. Get therapy. Start with you. Heal from the loss and then ask him to join you. Heal your marriage.

Third, unless you know there is a reason you are going to have a hard time getting pregnant just relax and have fun with it. A miscarriage does not mean instantly you are going to have a hard time getting pregnant. It’s a lot more common then I ever thought. People just seem not to talk about it. Breath and relax.

Apia says:

Absolutely. You need to be a team on this! And his feelings are important, too.
He already said, it’s to much for him and he had problems performing.

Brandy says:

Elizabeth,

As far as the drunken mother who took off with the baby… I have custody of a child whose parent is an addict…. I had to go to the county clerks office and file for temporary guardianship… the judge just granted that immediately. However i would advise them to contact an attorney about possibly getting emergency custody. (if you can even do that without even having the child) They would be able to help the writer inner more accurately. :)

Coco says:

Happy Monday everyone!

A few things…

For the writer-inner who is concerned about moving in with her boyfriend for financial reasons. Do Not worry about his finances or if he has spent time looking at places. Moving in together is a huge step and can be expensive. It’s also really problematic and expensive if it doesn’t work out and you get stuck in a lease. That feeling you get of concern, you should listen to it. Sometimes we put other people’s happiness or responsibilities ahead of our own and it can lead to resentment or financial/emotional hardships down the road. Concentrate on what is best for you right now, as well as in the long run. If your boyfriend is good partner, he will be respectful of your decision, whatever that may be. I caution anyone who is not married/engaged or in a long-term committed (like a lifetime commitment) to move in together, especially in your 20’s. Put your education, career, developing friendships and your sense of self first. Take it from someone who has been there…moving in with someone should be for the right reasons such as love, commitment and wanting to build a deeper bond with your partner, never for financials reasons! Good luck!!!

And for the writer-inner asking about wedding etiquette. We just got married but are in our mid-30’s so had a modest registry. A few friends have taken us out to dinner as their gift and it’s been fun to discuss the wedding and spend some quality time with friends since we had a large wedding and couldn’t give one on one time to everyone who attended. We’ve also done this for friends over the years too. No need to give a gift and take them out to dinner, unless you want to. It’s not some unknown wedding etiquette but another great option to connect, especially if a couple has everything they need already.

JustZeek says:

To the writer inner with the annoying in-laws.

First off, Father-in-law will get over it. Middle names are rarely used (unless the kids are in trouble hehehe). I wouldn’t worry about any of it. Making a big deal out of it could either prolong the agony of the comments (that is what would happen in my family) or cause an unneeded and unwanted strain on a relationship. Is it really worth it.

As far as the Mother-in-law is concerned. She is probably trying to relate to you more then you think. Don’t over think it. If it really bothers you, take a break from talking to her when you know she is going to hit a raw nerve. Such as (though you love them to pieces) the annoying part of having little ones under your feet while you are trying to fold laundry, vacuum, do dishes, etc. Remember some people truly believe their pets are like children. Most parents after having kids understand the difference but some forget after a while I guess.

squashblossom says:

About spaying and neutering dogs: you may think, “well, it’s not necessary because I’ll keep the dog at home when she’s in heat.” Yeah, but SHE might have other plans!

If you have a yard or a doggie door, when she’s in heat, she can find a way to escape the yard and go get herself some action, because it’s her instinct. Or more likely, male dogs will smell her and find a way in, or come after her when you’re on walks. And then…just like humans and unplanned pregnancies, it only takes one time!

Dominic says:

For the writer-inner with the alcoholic/bipolar mother, I would also suggest the book Toxic Parents by Susan Forward which really does a great job of examining how to deal with people who have parents with mental issues or substance abuse issues, and also how to go on and heal from them and also how to speak or relate to them.

It really is a beautiful but heartbreaking book. I believe you can buy the book or find a free PDF copy of it online.

But I definitely agree, therapy or Al-Anon groups would really help with the idea of feeling less alone and knowing how to handle this.

I would also really suggest the writer-inner try talking things over with the father because he’s been in the thick of it too and in some way has been sort of the silent enabler of the mother. It could be really easy to feel resentment towards him even if it’s never been there before.

I would also just keep an eye on the mother, and if she keeps making those kinds of vague threats of her not being around, you might also want to consider getting the police involved if you think she’ll be a suicide risk. That might be a really hard step, but you can never tell how serious they actually are especially if there’s alcohol and/or a mental illness involved.

Tabby says:

Re: woman trying to get pregnant.

When you say you are unqualified to give advice, you are 100% correct. Wow…I am stunned right now. You completely missed the entire message that she is trying to get pregnant to FIX her issues. She even said she hoped to get pregnant soon to resolve the issue.. You are right that they have communication issues…but her husband is also righ in a way: They (not ‘her’) should not (!!!!!!!!!!!) get pregnant until they have fixed their (not her) problems.

This couple is in no position for pregnancy and I think the writers hope pinned to getting t to resolve probs indicates her lack of maturity (experience). They are fucked if they get pregnant.

Elizabeth says:

Tabby, I think you are discounting the fact that THEY wanted a child, THEY got pregnant with a child and then had a miscarriage. OF COURSE she wants to get pregnant soon, she was pregnant before. This couple just went through an enormous loss and are obviously grieving in different ways, as I stated, I feel strongly that they should work on their communication and marriage in the meantime but to say that they are “fucked” if they get pregnant is insensitive and offensive, especially to someone who was on track to have already been a mother. She’s not suffering from a lack of maturity or experience, as you said, she’s suffering from grief and loss and is looking for ways to heal and wants to be a mother just as she and her partner have for some time.

Also, just a reminder that this writer inner is suffering and is feeling alone and in a dark place. She’s done nothing wrong and is not a bad person, she’s just been dealt a tragedy and is dealing with it. I think there’s a way to get your opinions across without unkindness towards her, it’s unwarranted.

Alia says:

Tabby, I truly hope the writer-inner does not see your comment. Everything you said is extremely hurtful.

Coco says:

Woah Tabby. My husband and I had a miscarriage during our first years of dating (thanks birth control). It was not a planned or even wanted pregnancy so there were completely mixed feelings when I miscarried. I felt very alone mourning the little spirit and it affected our relationship deeply, almost separating several times. Our communication skills which had been fantastic, were blown to smithereens and he didn’t understand what I was experiencing, just like I couldn’t understand why it was so easy for him to move on. My hormones were out of whack and it was difficult to see which way was up. This can be a very sensitive and complicated topic. I can only imagine how much more difficult this would have been were we trying to get pregnant. What I love about this site is that commenters here are respectful of everyone’s different experiences and perspectives. It makes it a very safe space to open up about things we might hold close to us in our everyday lives. Elizabeth and Andy give great advice and know when to recommend seeking therapy or opening up to the listeners who might have gone through something similar. Everyone is doing the best they can while passing on lots of wisdom and compassion. I hope the writer-inner knows to ignore your comment and that she is not alone. Only time will heal that hole you feel. You can get through this and you will be stronger because of it.

Apia says:

I don’t think this writer give us enought information to judge the situation so harshly.
Every couple has some problems, and if only perfekt people were allowed to have children, most would end up childless.

But I also think her husband tries to communicate and she doesn’t listen to him.

Maybe we should talk about miscarriages more. I don’t think it always has to be a tragedy, it’s sad, but many women have several miscarriages in their lives, and have already children, who need their attention.
Maybe they feel guilty for not feeling bad enought.

Angela says:

Re: Elizabeth’s question about therapy and diagnoses…

From what I’ve learned from clinical psychologists I work with (for my job, not as a patient), a diagnosis is almost always given when meeting with a client which is probably the most frustrating thing about the mental health field. This is typically for insurance purposes and a diagnosis can be given even if a clinical interview or standardized testing cannot be conducted. However, the diagnosis can change throughout time and with testing, and I know it can be a pain to remove a former diagnosis from your medical history so that future doctors will not show bias when interacting with you. A diagnosis and method of treatment is also dependent on the type of therapist you’re seeing. So, a clinical psychologist would be more focused more on guided cognitive behavioral therapy, giving clinical interviews (asking patients specific standardized questions but open answers are given) and giving the patient standardized measures (with specific response choices) based on popular and current research. Counseling psychologists do not always follow CBT but use other approaches like humanistic or ACT; and are more Freudian in their approach to therapy (not as structured and can withhold information from their clients). If you have a diagnosis like bipolar you’d probably be better off seeing a clinical psychologist than a counseling psychologist (but this also depends on the treatment the client thinks works best for them). Different approaches to therapy are employed depending on the diagnosis given as well. I’m pretty sure it is a client’s right to know what their diagnosis is no matter what, but that probably could also depend on the therapist- but you are definitely getting your diagnosis if you are referred to a psychiatrist for medication, because you need to know why you’re receiving such meds. I’m not sure about therapists who are strictly Freudian or give counseling at a master’s level. And, with the clinical training I’ve received I understand that it’s actually a relief for patients to be told their diagnosis because, even if there’s stigma attached, now that you have identified your illness or disorder, that should the stress/anxiety/depressing that results from not knowing what’s wrong with you.

You are also correct to think of bipolar as being different from borderline and narcissistic diagnoses. Bipolar is in a completely different class of disorders, and borderline and narcissism are personality disorders. Borderline is “easier” (for lack of a better word) to find in clients because narcissists are very reluctant to receive help or recognize that anything is wrong even when they have very disastrous personal relationships.

Angela says:

“should the stress/anxiety/depressing” should be read as “should lesson the stress, anxiety and/or depression”

Elizabeth says:

thank you for this, Angela! Really clarifies it, and it all makes sense :)

Carolyn says:

I wanted to comment on the question about the girl who just moved to her home town and now wants her mother to watch her kids instead of her brothers. I feel for the brother and if I were him this would cause some real resentment towards my sister. Think of it from his 4 year olds point of view. He has to say, sorry kid, your grandmother who has watched you your whole life now wants to see your cousins instead. It is just one more year until that kid goes to school too so I think the grandmother finishes it out with him and then starts watching the sisters kids after that. I am fairly certain the sisters dreams of having a big loving family are going to all fall apart starting with this as the first crack. As you can tell I was shocked you all had no feelings for the brothers family and kids in this situation. You all are usually right on and I enjoy your show but this made me gasp that you didn’t care about the other kids who may be sensitive to not seeing grandma that often anymore, it may be their favorite day of the week.

Chelsey says:

My two cents about the writer inner that experienced a miscarriage. I may be misreading the writer-inner’s email.
But I too, had a miscarriage…and I was surprised at my husbands own mourning process. He was so worried about me, and the focus was so on me for a while….that he had a distinct delayed mourning period a few weeks later where everything hit him that he had lost a child as well. That time that the writer inner and her husband were pregnant…he was envisioning a child as well…and though everyone mourns very differently, and the feelings of carrying a baby and losing it are so profound, lets not discredit the confusing feelings and emotions that men might be going through as well. Especially if she said that he isn’t great at expressing himself. He might not even be sure what he’s feeling right now.
When I heard the harsh words and lashing out that was going on from her husband, the first thing I thought was he must be going through things as well. It must be confusing for a husband to lose a child and temporarily lose their wife as well. To feel so completely helpless that you just want to fix it, and for your wife to be back to the happy person she used to be. Dare I say, maybe they can go through a period of resenting the pregnancy. I think men sometimes come off insensitive to us, and we’re really reacting to their outward (sometimes unhealthy) words and confusing anger. But for a man who has a hard time expressing himself (my husband is the same) they’re not able to put into words those emotions.
Even though you want to get pregnant right away, and feel it will help you look to the future, maybe he needs time. To get back to normal, and to feel like he has you back and he didn’t lose your relationship as well as a child.
As Andy said, I think sex that isn’t for conception and intimacy between you two will really help him to feel grounded and connected again.
These things sometimes do take time. And you are, after all, in this together.

Em says:

Haven’t finished the podcast yet, but to the writer inner considering getting a paralegal certificate - DONT DO IT. You do NOT need it for most paralegal jobs - just a 4 year BA. Please look at job listings and talk to people in the field before you apply for the program - I’m guessing you’re already qualified and don’t even know it.

Jason S says:

Here’s my random Laime moment of the week: I work in data entry in the medical field, and today was entering info for a patient whose diagnosis code was “311”. I thought ‘hmm, that’s funny, 311, like the band - first time that number’s come up’ I entered the number into the proper field, which populates the next blank with the actual diagnosis, which is, “Depressive state not otherwise specified”. Do with that what you will, Elizabeth.

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