A Great Birth w/Leonora Pitts!
01.15.14 | Share: Share on Twitter Share on Facebook
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Totally Mommy Podcast
Episode 2
It’s our inaugural episode with a guest host! Today, Elizabeth’s friend ~ actress, director, writer and mother extraordinaire Leelee Pitts comes on and discusses her two unmedicated births, how kids somehow manage to poop up their backs, and how important balance is (whaaa?!). Then they answer a listener question about having a baby shower when it’s an adoption without knowing the exact date of baby’s arrival! Enjoy!
67 Comments!
I typically love you but man, today with your friend, you are coming across as really pretentious. First you knock cruises, and to that I say to each their own. Beyond that you both were being such snore about birth. I gave birth naturally and yes, encourage women to do that. But news flash, natural birth doesn’t have to mean in a birthing center. Your painting this picture that all but birthing centers offer this method. Saying how hospitals whisk the baby away without skin-skin. That’s not at all the case. I had a natural birth, in a hospital, had skin-skin and my husband cry the cord. Please reevaluate how you preach. Your usually fun but today was TOTALLY (franchise plug) snotty. A good message for the listeners is the advice to do their homework, know their options, communicate their desired method, and advocate for it. Don’t just show up and expect people (clinicians) to read their mind.
Btw the podcast lightened up when you mentioned Anal.
yikes! But I guess say what you gotta say, just replying because I wanted to point out that LeeLee had two natural births in a hospital, not a birth center so I’m surprised to hear that I/we painted that picture…
Lauren.
That’s a pretty harsh review it sounds to me like you’re being hypersensitive. Some people need to get over themselves and realize that Elizabeth isn’t try to make a personal attack on every individual person with different choices from her own. She is just looking to have an open discussion about the different birthing methods and why she chose the route she did. Also Elizabeth has never claimed to be an expert on these issues and she has never bashed hospital births. I work in the medical industry and am a huge advocate for all things medicine and she has never once offended me. Of course she’s going to sound a little biased, in two months shes going to be using the method she trusts and also its her podcast she can say whatever she wants.. you don’t have to listen. Great show Elizabeth! Keep it up!
Laura sorry but I also don’t agree.
Elizabeth made the comment MULTIPLE times that she didn’t want to come off rude, this is HER PERSONAL CHOICE AND OPINION. I just don’t see where you are coming from that she is pretentious in any way.
Elizabeth love the podcast. My husband and I have been working towards getting pregnant and I love hearing opinions of you and your guests and what works for you.
Keep it up Elizabeth, and thanks for letting me listen!
P.S. maybe because I don’t have kids, but don’t sensor your words! I love hearing a sweet voice dropping the eff bomb here and there.
I was also able to have a hospital birth with a midwife where they let me do my thing. Every situation is different, but I think the important thing is to research your options! There are certainly a lot of hospitals and OBs who aren’t down with delayed cord clamping, immediate skin to skin, and no vaccinations and eye goop right after birth. And also, be supportive of all moms! I think Elizabeth and Leelee were pretty clear that they weren’t judging others, just stating their own preferences and opinions!
I loved the anecdote about Willow over breakfast! Shiiiiit.
I loved the episode. And I am judging you not by a birthing choice, but by the use of Your when it should be You’re or you are… Just saying…
Just. Great.
Thank you so much for starting this podcast and already talking about real stuff. Being a mom for the first time is so interesting and unique, but to hear others are experiencing similar things is so comforting. I’m so excited to hear more Mommy shows!
xoxo
Jena
Hey I love all of your podcasts but I do have to agree some of the things you said did come off a little judgemental at times. You blamed your friend and other women’s labor problems and even difficulty nursing on them not being informed. That just adds to all the guilt us women hold onto who didn’t have things go as planned. There was a lot of “no judgement here….but I’m choosing to go into it prepared and informed” sounds a little judgemental. I still love the podcast but couldn’t help but respond since this episode brought back a lot of sad feelings about my own experience.
It’s so funny you mentioned root canals today. I have a crippling fear of needles, and I had to have a root canal a couple of years ago that meant 9 shots in and around my gums. I was in a right state when my dentist was describing this to me, and she recommended some visualization/self-hypnosis-y techniques to me and it was so helpful to me. I still use those skills when I get anxious-y. Love the new podcast, btw.
Listening to the podcast today, I was practically bursting when your guest said that one of the hardest partmaintas of having a baby is maintaining your identity. Not sure how in depth you plan to go into things but there are a lot of negative things I wish I was prepared for.
1) You may wet your pants for the first few weeks after having your baby. Also, you may never be able to jump rope again without leakage.
2) You should NOT look at your girly parts until you have fully recovered. I personally didn’t look but have heard other people say the used a mirror to look amd it was traumatic.
There are plenty more thing but these are just a few.
Also, sometimes skinny girls birth babies more easily. I had the easiest birth but my friend who had ‘birthing hips’ actually had massive internal tearing. This isn’t meant to scare you, just to reassure skinny girls that they may do well too.
If you want to have some kind of insight as to what it’s like to have a root canal with no anesthesia, take a look at James Frey’s “A Million Little Pieces.” Just reading that made me want to crawl out of my skin. I had to put the book down a few times to get through it all.
As for the show, LOVE! I’m not a mom or anything close to it but I will be eventually and it’s nice to hear some personal opinions about things I never knew existed and get a heads up for some things-to-come.
I look forward to hearing these discussions after the baby comes, because I think a lot of what was said about medicated and hospital births in this podcast comes from a place of fear. I shared a lot of Elizabeth’s fears about having my baby “whisked away” and not being able to breastfeed before I gave birth, so I get where she is coming from, but I will say that the discussion in this podcast about Elizabeth’s reasons for choosing an unmedicated birth are not an accurate portrayal of all hospital births with interventions. Increasingly, hospitals are encouraging skin-to-skin and breastfeeding right after birth and this is even possible after a c-section. Of course, if these are things you want, you should have that conversation with your doctor or midwife, and I respect that going the unmedicated route is one way that a woman can become empowered to express her preferences on these subjects, but it is definitely not the only route.
Also, Elizabeth, you keep saying that you don’t mean to be judgmental, but you repeatedly imply that people who choose medicated births haven’t done the same research as you, or haven’t put in the same level of work to prepare for the birth as you (both on this episode and a few episodes of Totally Married), which is, actually, insulting. There are many women who do the same research and simply come to a different conclusion about what is the best option. Please keep in mind that most want and prioritize the same things you do — a healthy baby, an empowering birth experience, bonding with the baby after birth, a successful breastfeeding relationship, etc. — and that there are many ways to achieve all of these things.
I’m worried that this comment will come across as mean-spirited, but I think it’s worth posting, and here’s why. I love Totally Married, and I was quite excited about Totally Mommy (especially because I am a new mom), but harbored a touch of worry that the new podcast would fan the flames of the “mommy wars,” because it is just so easy to do when talking about parenting. If other episodes take the same tone as this one, I most likely won’t continue listening, because there is no point in taking in information that makes me feel like an inferior mother, woman, or human (as your comments about “doing your research” and “doing the work” do). I’m guessing there are other women and moms who feel the same way.
I think it’s totally possible to talk about personal choices in a way that doesn’t belittle the choices of others (Biz and Theresa do a fabulous job of this on the One Bad Mother podcast), and one of the reasons I love Totally Married is because I think you generally do do this, or at least work at it. I’m really hoping that Totally Mommy goes the same way.
Other moms out there: Am I way off-base? Am I being an overly-sensitive jerk? I recognize that this is totally possible and, if so, I will take a step back and try to evaluate the way my experience may be unfairly coloring my perception.
Just want to say that I’m definitely going to address this judgment vortex in an upcoming episode of Totally Mommy - I’m sorry to hear that I sound judgmental, which I need to look at (and I think you are right, it is certainly not intentional/authentic and it must be fear based) but on the flip side, I’m also beginning to feel like I’m not allowed to talk about my choices/hopes for birth or the “why” of my choices/hopes for birth without offending other moms who made different choices and/or had different experiences. So, I do feel like I can’t discuss my hope/plan without inherently coming across as judgmental to someone without the same hope/plan, which is a damn shame for all of us moms to be! I honestly had no idea this would be such a sensitive area and, to my surprise I have definitely found myself being defensive about my choices and feeling judged for them as well, so I get it on both sides. I’m also well aware that I haven’t given birth yet and things might take a very different turn from what I’m hoping for/working towards. I think this is part of the fear creeping in. But I do hope that I can speak freely about what I want and hope for and the choices I’ve made and why, without people taking offense if these choices were different from theirs.
As far as the implication about other people not doing their research - I definitely advocate doing research, of course (see, I feel compelled to say here: but if you don’t want to, that’s cool too! whatever works for you!) The only time I mentioned this specifically was in an episode of Totally Married and my words have been taken out of context. I wasn’t referring to moms who made a different choice than me but rather a few people in my life whose reaction to me wanting to go un-medicated was “you’re insane!” or “WHY?!”… This is my actual experience with a select few people in my life and I have to assume (actually, knowing them I know this for a fact) they hadn’t done research into the pros/cons of going unmedicated. I believe that if they had, they wouldn’t have reacted that way and made me feel stupid or crazy about my choices.
Point being, it goes both ways so I get it, but I hope I can find and be free to discuss my choices and hopes in a way that doesn’t come across as judgmental. Firstly because I wish there were more room for an open dialogue about this sort of thing between moms without the fear of offending, and secondly because at the end of the day there is no judgment on my end for other women and their choices, only the hope for the type of birth I’m working towards for myself.
Thanks everyone for your feedback - more to come on this for sure!
Thanks for your response. First, thank you for clarifying that when you talk about people not doing their research, you are talking about specific people in your life. I think that when this came up on Totally Married it was also in that context. I mistakenly thought you were making a blanket statement about people who don’t, for whatever reason, want unmedicated births.
Second, I totally agree that it is valuable to be able to discuss these issues openly, and I definitely love hearing people talk about their personal experiences and choices. You’re right that it’s hard to do that without people getting offended. I know really know how to strike the right balance, but I do know that it’s possible because many of the moms in my life (and on the internet!) do.
One thing I have learned as that when I approach an issue from a place of being defensive, that’s when I’m most likely to come across as being judgmental of other people’s choices. And of course, I’m not being judgmental, I’m just trying to explain my own position, but the defensive posture is never received well. For example, I am often really defensive about being a working mom (it is really frowned upon in my religious community), and inadvertently offend stay-at-home moms when I really just want to stick up for myself. (On that note, I really loved your discussion about balancing career and motherhood ambitions in this podcast.) I suspect that as I get more comfortable with my choices as a parent, all of the judgment that I see everywhere (and carry with me, if I’m being honest) will start to fade.
I look forward to hearing your thoughts going forward. I’m one of those people who tends to keep positive feedback to myself and speak up only when I disagree, which isn’t super great, so I do want to take the time to say that I thoroughly enjoyed the rest of the episode, Leelee sounds amazing, and I wish you nothing but success in all of your podcasting and babygrowing/rearing endeavors.
Getting critiqued for your parenting choices seems, I think, to start with the pregnancy announcement and doesn’t really end, as far as I can tell. But labour and delivery does indeed seem to be a particularly hot trigger point. I mean, even the fact that it’s framed as a “choice” inevitably sets women up on opposing sides which is utterly silly.
But a few small things might help in sounding less judgey (because I know you’re not):
- be precise with the terminology: if you meen epidural-free or whatever, say “unmedicated” (as you did in the comment above) or if there’s specific interventions you don’t (or do) want, then talk about them specifically, don’t use “natural” which is one of those weasel words that triggers those who have been judged for their births.
- try to say “choice” less: you’re setting yourself up for critique because women who don’t do what you do are then forced to say they “chose” something else, when maybe it wasn’t a choice at all.
- talk all you want about what you’re doing and reading to prepare and how, but avoid the phrase “doing your research” (and I do get the context in which you said it, but I don’t think there’s any way of saying that phrase without raising hackles). Why? 1) because tons of the recommendations and methods and information online and in books (and I’ve read a TON of it) are not based on actual statistically significant studies, and lots of stuff is factually inaccurate 2) none of it really matters when it’s you that’s pushing out that baby.
i.e., I was interested in an unmedicated labour, but I also have a complicated medical history and have no fear of interventions, and yeah, I ended up having to have quite a few - GBS+ so I needed IV antibiotics, induced, then epidural, then episiotomy, then vacuum (the darling had her hand up by her head), and the crash team was in the room when she finally emerged. But! It was still great, really! No regrets and only good feelings about how it all went down. All those things were necessary for me (I was 4cm when given the epidural, and within a half hour, was at 10, so it definitely does not always stall labour, apparently it can also relax everything). And we did delayed cord clamping, and immediate skin-to-skin and she latched immediately and we had a wonderful breastfeeding experience for 15 months. So none of the bad things that some of the “natural mothering” sites came to pass.
Love the podcast and am looking forward to new episodes!
Sandy, I don’t think your way off base. As a mom of two I had two C-sections for different reasons and when I hear my crunchy group of moms start on their birth stories I wince. There is a line between being proud of yourself and making others feel less than.
I was young with my first and with my second I tried a V back but it didn’t work for a number of reasons. I don’t feel I need to explain or justify here, but I was an informed mom, did the best with my circumstances, and did what I thought was best for me and baby. I think many times the birthing experience is like a wedding…to much emphasis on the act and not on life after.
BTW, I had a great experience with my second C-section with immediate skin to skin and breastfeeding, my husband by my side and no horrible complications at all. Hospital was great with lactation consultants, hospitalist pediatrician, etc.
The thing is, this never ends…it goes from birth story to breast vs. bottle, car seat choices, circumcision vs. not, and on and on… I don’t consider myself super sensitive and maybe some of us moms have a different perspective because we have been through our plans falling through. Elizabeth, I wouldn’t consider censoring yourself at all and best of luck to you! Just realize that we all want the birth plan to work, it just sometimes doesn’t and it really is no one’s fault. Assigning blame, explicitly or implicitly, doesn’t do anyone any good.
Great tips, Gayle! I would also add, don’t make assumptions about other women’s births or about things you haven’t experienced (like speculating that your friend couldn’t breastfeed because she had interventions that prevented latching ASAP), and invite guests with a variety of experiences. I’m sure you will do that anyway, and we will certainly hear from a variety of different people as you get into listener questions, which is why I have high hopes for the podcast. In fact, maybe I should have held my tongue for a few episodes before assuming all my worst fears about the toxic “mommy media” (pardon the problematic term) environment were coming true.
“Ah, push it-push, push, push, push it…” -salt n’ peppa
You and Leelee inspired me to look into hypnobirth. The marathon metaphor really got me thinking about labor in a new way. I actually found a couple free hypnobirth apps since the $160.00 is too much for me to drop on hypnobabies at the moment. Speaking of what a broke ass I am makes great transition into the fundraiser my husband and I are doing to raise money for our dog’s much needed knee surgery. With Elizabeth’s permission, I am including the link to our dog Ola’s knee surgery fundraiser. It really sucks having to ask people for money, but if I don’t our dog will never walk normally again. Here’s the link: http://www.indiegogo.com/projects/643029/emal/6027763‘
Thanks,
April Mae
April, I think you can buy some “gently used” hypnobabies materials. When I was on the babycenter boards I would always see moms looking to buy or sell for a fraction of the cost.
Elizabeth, reading the dialogue on today’s episode makes me agree with you. I am not a mother, or currently expecting, but I too feel very strongly about the birth choices for my future child. My husband and I have discussed them (babies are on the table for the end of this year) and we both feel that having a natural birth with little intervention is right for us (unless, there is a medical complication, which I hope not because I too have some serious birthing hips). I don’t feel you’re being “judgmental”, but stating how you feel and what you’re doing to prep. I know this is a sensitive issue for some women because labor does not always go as planned. That’s not something to apologize for. Anyway, as a non-mother I’m enjoying this podcast and I say keep on preaching what your plan is. No one else has to deliver baby Oprah, just you!
I LOVED the adoption question on today’s episode. Congrats to the couple waiting to become adoptive parents! My husband and I are also (not so) patiently waiting to be matched and have been waiting since July 2013. Right away I wanted to have a shower and prepare the nursery and nest but at the urging of some adoptive parent friends we decided to hold off and I am SO happy we did.
We were matched with an expectant mother in August, the baby was born one week later and we spent 4 blissful days with her only to learn the birth father wanted to parent and we returned home, just the two of us. Had we come home to the perfectly complete nursery and had to look at it daily it would have destroyed me further and I’m pretty sure I would have had to donate everything and start again because I would have thought of it as “her” nursery.
I do have to urge the couple to do whatever feels best to them, but know that a disrupted match is very possible. Only they know what they can handle if the worst happens.
We do have some essentials - bassinet, blankets, newborn diapers, etc. that friends have given us, but our nursery still serves as our office and guest room and will until there is a baby in our home. They can always start their registry so it is ready when needed and they aren’t walking into Babies R Us not knowing which car seat or bottles to buy!
One other note, “stork drops” as they are called (when a baby is already born when matched with adoptive parents) happens often. Our agency estimates at least 30% of their situations are matched after the baby has been born.
Adoptive parents, take note of this perfect summation of “waiting for baby” issues. There are many disruptions and also many last minute placements. We went with a baby intro shower at about 2 months in and it was great, but you should just make sure you have a bassinet or bedside crib ready and the rest can really be bought at any grocery store until people start giving you hand me downs and gifts.
Great ep! Very interesting to a non mommy! I loved the baby stories! Love you Elizabeth!!
As for the comments, no need to sweat your differences, I think you are all good moms doing the hard work every day! ❤️❤️❤️❤️ Pro choice pro women pro mommy!!
I’m not a mum and don’t plan to be for a good few years but loved this episode, so funny and informative! I want to be friends with both you and Leonora!
Also, I just want to say that I think you are great at dealing with criticism/comments etc and learning from it and that is a trait I wish I had!
Hey fellow moms, let’s relax with the “judgemental” labeling. I didn’t take their views as judgmental of anyone who does differently, I heard a lot of passion about hypnobirthing and fear about hospital births. Can you blame her?!? Moms love to tell their birthing horror stories! I was very interested to hear about that method of pain management.
I intended to have natural birth as well, but it didn’t go that way for me. I had to be induced and pitocin contractions were more than I could handle, so I got the epidural. It wasn’t the birth I planned or wanted, but it was still an incredible experience that I cherish every moment of. I also was able to do skin to skin right after and breastfeed because I let my OB know that those were very important to me.
I think Leonora said it best when she talked about being a feminist and supporting women’s birth choices. It’s ok to be passionate about different things. I’m passionate about breastfeeding (I’m extremely proud that my 6 month old is still exclusively breastfed and I plan to continue into toddlerhood) but that doesn’t mean I judge formula feeding moms.
I look forward to hearing more differing opinions! Keeps it interesting!
I just don’t hear the broad judgemental tone some of y’all reference. Every mother-to-be has to make a judgement about what is right for her, but that’s an exercise in self-reflection, and knowing what is best for yourself, not for everyone else. Being a mama is so intimate, that sometimes it might be difficult to hear someone take a different parenting road without hearing an implicit criticism.
That last sentence sums it up pretty well, I reckon. Nice one.
I’m loving this show so far. I’m almost 35, have no kids yet and for about 3 years in my early(er) 30s, I was in a state of complete turmoil about whether I want kids or not. When I decided to stop worrying about it (effectively decided to walk around in the shoes of a person who doesn’t want children for a while) everything got better. I now can think in terms of, “when and if we want to, we can do something about it.”
Like Elizabeth said, I also seem built for birthing with my hourglass lady-body, but there’s no part of me physically or psychologically that feels the urge to reproduce, that desire is absent. This is something that worried me, because though I don’t feel I would be incomplete without one, I think Graham (hubby), and I sort of envisaged having a family. I’d always been up for adoption, but that is VERY hard to do in the UK, it’s virtually on impossible - in fact we might even be considered to old. Aside from those factors, I also have a crippling terror of birth, which I feel is a major part of my physically and psychologically I can’t make that connection *at all*.
But listening to you guys talk frankly and honestly and positively about birth has been the most calming and informative thing I’ve heard, I like the way you approach the subject as something that women can do - as opposed to the usual horrifying tales of how you can never prepare and it’s the worst thing you’ll ever experience etc. It’s just nice to hear something real.
Also, I had a friend - a really wonderful earth mother type - who really wanted a natural birth for her first. Turned out her daughter was breach and she had to have a caesarian, my friend was delighted with her baby, but also felt robbed of the chance to give birth and felt betrayed by her body, especially when she couldn’t breast feed as long as she wanted. The Doctors also told her it was very unlikely she could have a natural birth after that first caesarian. When she got pregnant again she decided she wanted to try for a natural birth. Her second son was born by natural birth a couple of years later - no complications 🙂 I think there’s a strong chance that if she hadn’t said she wanted to try the doctors would have just scheduled the caesarian. So perhaps sometimes it’s worth giving your body a chance do to what it needs to do.
One of the main things she taught me about the process was that because a lot of people will try to tell you there’s a right or wrong way to give birth/look after the new baby/raise children, but it’s just about what feels right for you, making mistakes, picking yourself up and marching on.
It seems like trusting yourself is the first step to not getting into a huge tangle of meeting expectations. But then isn’t that just one of the many challenges of womanhood 🙂
Anyway, I’m rambling - thanks for the show <3
Cam
I am surprised how emotive the choice of birthing style is for people. I think whatever decision you make for yourself and your baby is what was right for you.
My husband and I never intended to have children when at 34 I found out I was pregnant. Needless to say, knowing the inevitably outcome that was to come, I attended maternity classes to get myself prepared emotionally and physically as it was not something I was looking forward to. The midwife (I am from the UK and the standard here for childbirth is having a midwife) discussed all the options and possible scenarios and after reviewing the options, I decided on a water birth using hypno techniques just as Elizabeth.
Cut to the day I went into labour (my exact due date) and having started my contractions at 7.30am, in the hospital at 10am where I was 3cm dilated and they wanted to send me home. By 1.30pm when they checked again, I was 9 cm dilated and almost ready yo push. Needless to say, I had no drugs as it happened so fast and no water birth and ended up with 3rd degree tears and had to go to theatre for surgery an hour after giving birth. Regardless of things not going as planned, for me does not matter and especially after you bring your baby home, you just focus on baby and not how they got into the world. Just that they are finally here.
What I found so interesting after having my little one ( he is 16 months now) is when I would meet other moms with little ones, the conversations was about who had the most dramatic births and the battle stories so to speak from that. Everyone’s experiences are valid regardless of what choice you made.
I am a fan of Totally Laime and Totally Married and also happen to be pregnant (due just a few weeks after Elizabeth and Andy), so of course I had to listen to Totally Mommy. I am enjoying it so far and very interested to hear all the topics that will be brought up. Even if I don’t agree with the opinions, the conversation is good to listen to and get ideas.
I have never commented before on a listener question, but for some reason after listening to this episode and the question from the adoptive-parents-to-be, I thought I could actually weigh in with a somewhat useful opinion. The reason is that even though I am not adopting, I am Jewish and there is a Jewish custom to not purchase ANYTHING for the baby or bring it into the house before they are born. It is a superstitious thing - like you are asking for trouble by preparing too much and also so that you don’t have a house full of baby things if something awful should happen. So, even though I am not adopting, I am still spending my entire pregnancy thinking about what I need to get, but not actually getting it. And I am a crazy planner, so this is very difficult for me to do.
So, here’s the advice I have been given from others who have done this, and this is what I would suggest to the listener who wrote in the question. Make a list of the necessary things you need and a list of the rest of it. (I have collected what I think is a pretty good list from some people if you would like me to post it). Get the necessary items to have ready just in case, or at least know what exactly they are so you can do the quick dash to Target if needed. Fill out your registry for the rest of the items you don’t need immediately, but “hide” it for now under a fake name. Then when you have matched or even after you have the baby and you are sure he/she is yours for the long haul - you can change the name and have your friends get you all the other stuff you picked out. Also, if you want to order nursery furniture and have them hold for delivery until there is a baby to live in it, there are plenty of stores that do that. So you can have family/friends pitch in on that once you have matched and that will be really helpful financially.
I am not sure if this helps or not. I do think the idea of having a “we’re on the list” party to celebrate is a fun idea - but make it more of a party than a vehicle to get baby things. There is time to get the things, even if you get a last minute call. People do it all the time and make it through. Hopefully this is helpful, sorry if it is not - do whatever makes you comfortable in the end. Good luck on matching!
I couldn’t agree more with this advice! I have a “last minute” registry ready to go so we can dash to Buy Buy Baby and get everything we need for the first few weeks and then a comprehensive list that is hidden, ready to go active as soon as we have a baby!
I loved this podcast. I did not find it judgmental at all! I agree that Leonora said it best when she talked about being a feminist and supporting women’s birth choices which is exactly what Elizabeth and Leonora were talking about. Elizabeth was just talking about her own choices and how she came to figure out what she and Andy want to do. I think something that is really important that Elizabeth talked about is the acknowledgement that things may not always go how you want them to however it is still ok to want and ask for certain things (like skin to skin right away) so have you. Every hospital and everyone’s experience is so different so when Elizabeth and her guests speak they are speaking from their own experiences and experiences of those they know. You shouldn’t criticize that. Please don’t censor yourself Elizabeth. You are entitled to your own feelings and thoughts and that’s why we love your show!
In terms of the guest question I to found it very interesting. My husband and I are using a surrogate and we had a lot of false starts so I am happy I didn’t have all the baby stuff in the house right when we got approved because I think it would have been even more heartbreaking when things didn’t work out with various surrogates. (This is similar to what Kayla said). Ultimately I decided to buy furniture and essentials in our last trimester. That way I felt prepared but didn’t feel like I was jumping the gun or getting things to early. In terms of a party I think it would be fun to celebrate with a few friends about getting on the list but I would maybe wait to buy the bulk of baby items. That is just what felt right for us. It is definitely different for each person!
Can’t wait for next weeks episode.
Elizabeth, you will find (as you already have with some of these comments) that in birth choices and feeding choices people have very strong feelings. I have 2 children (youngest is 16), and had 2 very different birthing experiences. With baby #1 I had an epidural (because everyone was doing it), but it only worked on the right 1/2 of my body . . . very odd to feel everything on the left and nothing on the right. 4 years later with baby #2, I decided that I didn’t want to do that again and had a perfectly normal, natural birth in a hospital (no drugs). I much preferred birth #2. I was able to move around, work with my body, and “Get ‘r done” (shout out to Andy). As someone who has gone through it both ways, I didn’t find your comments offensive or judgmental at all. You are preparing for your baby the way you want to do it, and if others take offense at that . . . oh well.
Even though I am almost completely past the “Mommy days” *sniffle*, I love your new podcast. It is nice to reminisce about the pooping, puking, goofy little goobers that my kids used to be. Relax and thoroughly enjoy these last few weeks of pregnancy and the arrival of baby Oprah, it goes by so fast.
These offended women must not have mother-in-laws like I have! “Well of course you want a natural child birth because if you’re medicated, the endorphins don’t rush in and you don’t bond with the baby in the same way.” Every piece of advice she gives is in the form of telling me what I must already want, and I live in fear of her judgment, so I don’t get too uptight over podcasts and how the host did or did not judge other moms.
Ladies, let’s keep the energy positive. This is only Elizabeth’s second episode, and she’s nearly 8 months pregnant. If you can’t say something nice, don’t say anything at all.
But if you are going to critique, please proofread and use the proper form of your/you’re. Take a lesson from Ross Geller.
Hahahahaha, love it! “Your letter was 18 pages long…FRONT AND BACK!” I could quote Friends all day long.
The thing that drives me the most crazy about motherhood is all this friction between moms! If anything, we should all be bffs because we share something so amazing, yet it’s also the most challenging thing we’ve ever done. Who cares if one person chooses natural/medicated, breastfeeds/formula, cloth/disposable, makes-their-own-baby-food/Gerber….we are in this together!
I adored today’s podcast and I wish I could hear more than one per week. 🙂
Elizabeth:
I love your podcasts and congradulations on your coming baby. I am afraid I must join the others who are rankled when you and your guest say things like “do your research” and then spout off things about pitocin and planned c-sections and so fortth. First of all, you should not have a non-OBGYN giving her opinions so authoritatively on the use of pitocin and epidurals and “interventions”. The implication that hospitals are “whisking” babies away for needless procedures and practicing “assembly line” births is also troubling. Why not have a neonatologist explain why they put eye cream on newborns, for example? Or have an OBGYN explain why pitocin and under what conditions pitocin used? I know it is fashionable to distrust OBGYNS, but they DO study for years and deliver thousands of babies- they ARE better trained than midwives and can save your and your baby’s lives in ways midwives cannot.
Only Certified Nurse Midwives are required to receive years of training in the United States. Otherwise, anyone can call herself a midwife, and Certified Professional Midwives only recently have been required to have high school degrees. A lot of people are not aware of the difference. And I disagree with your guest: I am pro choice, and I think birthing outside of a hospital is foolish and faddish and that if you do it you are risking your baby’s life needlessly in order to have a birth experience the way you want it. Your friend who had the assembly line birth may not have googled as much as you, but she did one thing much more wisely: she listened to the experts. The real experts.
Be careful about dispensing or appearing to dispense medical advice on your podcast. The reason why everyone is so sensitive and angry when these things come up is that the stakes are so high- they are the highest they will ever be in your life, or in any of our lives. I happen to think the anti-doctor, anti-intervention assumptions that people make so routinely these days are very dangerous, and like the anti-vaccine movement, a product of people in the developed world who have come to take their and their children’s safety for granted.
Ellen, I highly encourage you to go listen to podcasts from doctors if that is what you are after, please don’t tell me what i am or am not allowed to include in my podcasts. Also, I am definitely NOT anti doctor just because I did massive amounts of research (in real life and online from reputable websites) and made a different choice. You obviously are VERY anti midwife and extremely judgmental. I seriously encourage you to take your comments and thoughts elsewhere and feel free to not listen if you don’t like women sharing their personal experiences from a non expert standpoint.
I am not anti Nurse Midwife, but yes, I suppose I am anti non-nurse midwife. Were you aware that in some states virtually any one can call herself a midwife? I am also anti - out of hospital birth. I would never advocate for it to be illegal, but yes, I admit I will judge a woman who prioritizes her birth experience over her baby’s life and brain. I personally would prefer the most pointless c section ever rather than risk having my baby born in an emergency room.
Your guest said that the only birth she judges is a planned c-section. Why? Did it ever occur to her that this hypothetical woman wants to safely deliver her child and avoid the agony of labor and the risk of pelvic injury? Why is that bad? She asserted that epidurals lead to more c-sections- does she know that this is not a consensus? She even said that labor pain is exacerbated by fear. Well, 3,000 years ago they blamed labor pains on punishment from God, and now a woman who had two kids and claimed to self hypnotize blames it on punishment for fear. By the way, I had natural childbirth in a hospital and I was only a little nervous ahead of time. I felt like I was being tortured. My daughter was born healthy and it’s all good. I guess I can brag, but I’ve come to realize that women suffering in childbirth is basically pointless.
The truth is no woman can tell another woman about what to expect because every birth and labor is different. You of course have every right to interview friends or whomever, but you should not be giving or appearing to give medical advice to pregnant women.
I just wanted to say good on you Elizabeth for talking about it! As others have said it is a very sensitive topic and some people are going to get offended about everything you talk about. They think that your choice you make for you, is a criticism of them. As you said the other day - it is so similar to how people react to vegetarians but it is even more personal.
Birth is full on - I’ve had three unmedicated births - using midwives and we have transferred twice to hospital. This is the great thing about having qualified midwifes - you transfer when you need to - you aren’t rejecting medical assistance - you are using it when you need it!
And I completely disagree with Ellen above - when she says that suffering in childbirth is pointless. If you have pain relief you don’t get to FEEL your baby’s body coming out of your body. Your baby comes out of your body!! How incredible is that. I’ve done it three times and I remember the feeling of all three of them coming into the world. Makes me teary really. So amazing. It is painful but but with good support it is completely doable. Hard work but awesome.
My mum always said that you can’t “make” anyone feel anything and they choose to feel things based on their experience. Please stay as you are. Keep talking to about the things you are passionate about and interested in. Ignore the negativity. People come to listen to you because you are so open and generous with yourself - that is what is so special about what you do and who you are. You are ace.
I didn’t get the impression that Elizabeth was advocating one way or the other. She simply stated what she was doing. My sister is a labor and delivery nurse, and she has told me about the number of unnecessary c-sections that occur (both planned and not planned). It is simply done way to often, and is being done more and more often.
I had natural childbirth, and in no way thought of it as torture. It was a beautiful experience for both my husband and myself. I don’t think a c-section would have been anywhere near the bonding experience that labor and delivery was.
If you have listened to her other podcasts, Elizabeth isn’t stupid. In this podcast she even talked about the alternative (or maybe it was another podcast), but I have heard her say that if she requires a c-section she wants skin to skin contact immediately. I don’t believe this to be a rash decision, it is a well thought out plan for her baby’s birth.
I’ve had two unmedicated births. I wouldn’t categorize my pain as either agony or suffering. I would call it purposeful and manageable.
I’m not a mom and therefore I don’t have such strong opinions on birthing experiences, but I do want to jump in here and say that it might actually be REALLY cool to have an OBGYN or a doula or midwife come talk on the show. I had a college course on infant development and we had a doula come in and talk to us and she was the coolest and so interesting and so supportive of ALL types of birth experiences. It might be fun to have professional opinions on here from time to time. Maybe even authors of parenting books or professionals in the Child Development and Family Studies field? I LOVE hearing Elizabeth and her friends talk, the chemistry is so fun, and I want that to definitely stick around, but it could be cool to have other voices, especially on topics that are controversial like this one.
Loved the Willa and Murphy stories and the frank talk about how social media can feed mommy-doubt.
I’m a non-mother for what it’s worth- but Leona was right on by saying that if you call yourself pro-choice, you have to be pro-choice on everything.
As a longtime listener, I truly believe Elizabeth is not being judgmental. I think her choice of words may cause people to think that is so, but really, we’re all just arguing semantics.
Elizabeth (and others), I HIGHLY recommend reading “Why Have Children?” by Jessica Valenti, where she talks about research and her own experience about pressure and judgement about parenting.
http://www.amazon.com/Why-Have-Kids-Parenting-Happiness/dp/0547892616
Oops, meant Lenora!
Ladies,
I think everyone needs to relax here. Elizabeth is always saying that it’s “unqualified advice”. It’s her podcast and she should be allowed to express her opinion. This message board is supposed to be for comments, not novels. Peace and love 🙂
Elizabeth, I’m a fan of your other 2 podcasts but I only made it through half of episode 2 of Totally Mommy and I don’t know that I will listen to future episodes. I have 2 sons, 18 and 21, so I am probably out of your core demographic. My advice to you as a young mother-to-be podcasting about your experience is to invite the listener along for the journey, share your hopes and experiences, what worked and what didn’t, and leave the judgment of other people’s childbirth decisions aside. It’s a turn off. Sorry to be harsh but I have listened to you and Andy for quite a while and I know that you are better than that.
Kim, Thanks for your honesty, although this does sting I’m not going to lie. I wish you’d finished the episode… and I’m going to address this whole judgment thing in the next episode, because the truth is there is HONESTLY no judgment from my end, even if I came across that way - which I definitely did to some people and didn’t to others. Between being blasted by some listeners for “assigning blame” and being judgmental on here as well as getting blatant criticism and judgment for my choices (see Ellen’s comments above) plus being 8 months pregnant, this has all been a lot to digest and I want to find a way to navigate this in a way where I can be respectful and honest and also cultivate more dialogue about all different types of birth choices without offending. It’s a tall order but I think this has all happened for a reason and I have some ideas I’m excited about. Point being, this is all new to me and has been very eye opening. Anyways, I hope you’ll hang in for another episode. If not, best of luck to you.
Elizabeth:
Just so you know, I wish you nothing but good things. When you announced your pregnancy, there were tears in my eyes. I’m passionate about this topic. as you can probably tell. Your daughter is lucky.
Ladies, do you not all realize how judgmental YOU’RE being over this podcast? Also, what is there to gain by posting these unfavourable comments?
As people have pointed out on this comment thread, women are constantly at the receiving end of judgments about our choices, and in my experience, responding with “Stop being judgmental” only fuels the fire and begins an argument. I’d bet that most of you would behave quite differently in real life, and would swallow unwanted judgments from friends and family with a polite smile and nod.
I get the sense the anonymity of the internet is what is allowing you all to be so vocal and somewhat harsh.
I agree completely.
The internet is a great resource, and also a great way for people to spout off without thinking at times.
I had my babies 22-14 years ago, including a stillborn. I am on an email list of moms who all had babies due in May of 1997. There is a portion of us that are still together after all these years…through MANY disagreements on religion, politics, parenting, etc. My mantra is if you don’t have anything good to say, try to shut up or else be nice about voicing your thoughts.
Good luck to Elizabeth and Andy - I am looking forward to seeing how everything goes for you over the next month or so 🙂
Exactly. This whole thread kind proved Elizabeth’s point.
Hiya,
Just wanted to chime in and say that I hope you guys don’t censor yourselves too much in future podcasts because of the feedback. I really feel like the beauty of your shows is their kinda free-wheeling, natural vibe, where I feel like I’m listening to friends telling me what they actually think about stuff, without worrying too much about whether every word is carefully-crafted not to offend anyone’s sensibilities ever- that would be bland!! Pretty sure you already know all this, just felt like chiming in though 🙂
Well put Laila!! I also like the feeling that we are all friends and we won’t always agree, but we can agree to disagree, respect each other, and know that we are all just doing our best and support each other in that.
I love the new podcast (and the other two as well) and that’s part of what makes them so appealing, you are honest, thoughtful, respectful, and REAL!
I wish you a happy and love filled birth, I can’t wait to hear how it all “comes out.” 😉
I don’t usually chime in but as a long time listener I felt the need a little bit. I had my son almost 2 years ago. Elizabeth I felt the same way you did now. I read many books about natural birth. I planned a home birth (midwife assisted). I ended up with 39 hours of labor, an epidural and then an emergency c section to save both of our lives (totally not saying this to scare you! I have several friends who had beautiful home births that had originally inspired me). I was obsessed during pregnancy with having a natural birth - I see so much of myself in you. You don’t sound judgmental to me when you talk about wanting a natural birth without interventions, you sound hopeful and inspired. I was upset for months after because I had worked myself up so much for having a natural birth. Looking back now I feel a bit ashamed about how much I had preached about natural birthing. The thing is - when natural birth works it really works. It is inspiring and wonderful and I can imagine like conquering the biggest thing you could fathom doing.
I think people have mixed feelings and are come across sensitive because in reality birth (natural or medicated) is hard! It shakes you to your core. For me it was the hardest thing I’ve ever done. I don’t think people take it lightly. I think it is easy to come across as taken lightly when you haven’t had a child yet and you come forward with opinions that aren’t the societal norm. This comes with parenting too once you have the baby(the judgment and everyone has an opinion).
I’ve learned to take a deep breath and just do the best I can. Everyone is fighting a hard battle - we don’t always know what is beneath the surface when someone reacts to you and says something unkind. Or even if someone feels you are unkind. Just do the best you can. For me having a child was the most humbling experience.
Sorry if this was a bit of a ramble. Just wanted to extend a hand in support. Deep breaths. You are doing a great job lady!
“Be kind, for everyone you meet is fighting a harder battle.” Plato
Hi Elizabeth,
I wanted to chime in to say that, although I won’t be giving birth anytime soon, I do appreciate the conversation. Hearing your plans and all of the comments of differing opinion has definitely got me thinking about what I may choose when the time comes. Although I think what is right for me may be different than what is right for you, you’ve really brought to light that there are different options to research and decide upon. Controversy and potentially hurt feelings aside, thanks for starting the conversation!
wow so much judgement!! well as an old dad i loved the episode and loved Leelee!! the lesson is always Forgive, Forgive and Forgive until nothing is left to forgive E. chin up girl!
Hi, Elizabeth!
I recently discovered Totally Married and Totally Mommy and love both shows. I just had a baby 4.5 months ago. I had a wonderful birth experience with a CNM at a hospital and got to push my baby out in a birthing tub. It was the coolest thing that I’ve ever done in my life, and I hope to do it again in the future.
I appreciated the discussion you had with your guest last week about birth. While, there is definitely a natural birth movement, many woman don’t know that they have options when it comes to birth. It doesn’t have to be the awful Hollywood version of birth. Women should be encouraged to research their hospitals, care providers, and birth options. Unfortunately, some hospitals aren’t mother-baby friendly and aren’t all that supportive of breastfeeding. It’s so important women advocate for themselves.
I also want to say that women who give birth unmediated should be allowed to feel proud of themselves. I worked really hard to be able to have a natural birth, and I’m proud that I was able to withstand the pain and do something very difficult. Just as a runner works very hard to run a marathon and should have every right to feel proud of doing so.
That being said, birth is a right of passage no matter how it happens. Mothers should be celebrating and supporting one another rather than tearing each other down.
Elizabeth:
I love all your podcasts. I just want to let you know that as someone who is neither expecting or is a mom, you came across as trying really hard NOT to be judgemental in this episode. Maybe I see things more objectively because I am not actually emotionally involved in birth choices at this point in my life….at any rate you are doing a great job! I also know that by “doing your research” you mean not basing all you decisions on some granola all natural unproven internet opinions but instead seeking out well documented studies, speaking to medical professionals (certified midwives, physicians/obgyns, nurses) and those experience with non-medicated/non-hospital births (doulas, midwives, mothers) to determine what the best plan for you personally is. I think some of the more passionate responses above come from having the experience of doing it differently or choosing differently, and I wanted to reassure you that you seem fairly non-judgmental to me especially on a topic so close to you that encompasses so much judgement. Keep up the good work! Love the new show!
Love this new show Elizabeth! I feel I do have to warn what may now seem obvious - almost all of the parenting, birthing, and just general mommy issues are polarizing. Embrace it and don’t apologize for having your own opinions. Having people argue with you about YOUR opinions is probably (unfortunately) pretty good practice for Mommyhood.
I think you’re awesome, and for what it’s worth, I did not feel like you belittled any other choices - you made clear that your opinion was your own. Looking so forward to the coming eps!
Elizabeth,
I am 23 (until midnight!) and listen to all three of your podcasts. I don’t have kids but would love them when the timing is right for me and my man. I must say that after listening to this episode the idea of giving birth at some point in my future no longer terrifies me. I never seriously thought about alternative birthing practices until you talked about it in this episode and episode 3. Thank you for enriching my life, making me laugh, and encouraging me to be open to new ideas. You have a listener for life.
Peggy
aka CuriousChemist
Peggy! Happy birthday! Thank you for this, it makes me so happy. Hope you have a fantastic day to celebrate you and a fantastic year! Ohhhh youth 🙂
I agree with the commenter above who said that Elizabeth sounds like she is trying hard to sound like she is not judging. Of COURSE everyone is judging when it comes to birth choices. We use our judgement to determine what is right for us, and in that determination we eliminate things that are not right for us.
Elizabeth doesn’t think medicated births and elective caesareans are best for babies. I think that is clear and I happen to agree with her.
We all listen to Elizabeth’s podcasts because we like listening to someone else’s opinion. She is, as all of us are, entitled to her opinion…but I don’t get why everyone is jumping down her throat. Just turn it off if you don’t like it.
I’m a little behind, as I just listened to this episode today. However, I did not feel the Elizabeth was being judgmental, but I did cringe a little at the “did my research” comments. You can find research/articles to support whatever your preferred method of childbirth is, if you look hard enough.
I love the podcast and I will definitely continue listening.
I’m a big fan of your podcasts. I’m just catching up on Totally Mommy and finished this ep and wanting to share my story. I have two little girls (4 and 10 months) and I was in the same boat with my first daughter that you were in. I felt that there was only one way to go about giving birth - In a hospital with an OBGYN and get induced with an epidural. It was the norm because that’s how everyone in MY world went about it. I then watched a great video by RN Sheri Bayles called Laugh and Learn about Childbirth. She was so great. She explained everything you needed to know and all the options that are available. I was totally down with getting an epidural until I learned from the video on how it actually slows down the labor which is couter intuitive to what your body is trying to do and increases the risk of needing a C-Section. Anyways after watching this video I decided to go natural and I’m so happy I did. The labor and recovery time was shorter and my baby latched on sooner and easier after being born. Anyways that just my story I know it’s different for everyone I just hope more people would educate themselves on the pros and cons on natural vs. medicated births so they can make the right decision for themselves.
I’m late to the party I know, but I just heard you on One Bad Mother and had to check it out. I loved this episode and your discussion of hypnobirthing. I have two little boys both born with hypnobirthing. It was an amazing experience, just as Lee Lee described. I love hearing people talk about hypnobirthing, and know from personal experience that it IS really hard to talk about why you’re making your birth choice without sounding like you’ve judging every other birth choice. Obviously if you say that you are choosing a midwife and natural birth because you want to avoid intervention then it sounds like you’re judging people who have had interventions. But otherwise how are you supposed to talk about your choice? So just do you, a lot of people (maybe not all the people) but a lot of people will still listen.
Also the study that came out last week does confirm that epidural slow birth and doctors have not been waiting long enough for birth to progress, doing c-sections unnecessarily. So you are not unfounded in your comments about interventions.