Therapeutic Therapy!
08.24.15 | Share: Share on Twitter Share on Facebook
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Totally Married Podcast
Episode 215
Elizabeth and Andy discuss her recent foray back into therapy, the Ashley Madison “fallout” and why oppression/suppression seems to breed hypocrisy. Then they give their unqualified advice to listener questions about how to process a hurtful wedding party snub, as well as how to handle a delicate work situation at a law firm. Enjoy!
29 Comments!
Regarding the Legal Assistant…at least in my industry, you should not trust HR. Though you may think they’re there to protect employees, they are there to protect the company and executives. If you are comfortable with the lawyer you’ve been assigned to, talk to him and tell him that the new lawyer is asking more of you than you’d realized and that it’s taking away from other priorities. My initial thoughts are that the new, young lawyer is enjoying his status and making someone do little tasks for him. Sounds like a power trip.
I totally understand the writer-iner’s conflict on how to handle this. I get asked to do a lot of administrative tasks in my job because my title is confusing, much like a Legal Assistant could be. Though I understand Elizabeth’s instinct to do whatever is asked to show you’re a go-getter; I see it very differently. I think it could only cause the writer-iner to be used and ultimately not fulfill her full potential.
Agree.
I wouldn’t involve HR without first talking with her immediate supervisor because it may read as someone who cannot handle conflict in the workplace. Let him know that the new lawyer is taking away from her priority tasks.
Re: saying yes and not questioning your superiors. Saying yes all the time can make you be seen as someone who cannot manage workload which will contribute to missed deadlines. Frequently, if my boss asks me to do stuff and I am too busy, I say “I can certainly get on that, however, given what we discussed over the past few weeks, this new task will prevent me from completing task B. Which task do you want me to focus on now?” It shows that you’re someone who can manage workload, negotiate and communicate clearly about your needs. Be diplomatic and respectful but do not be a mat for your boss. Once you have a reputation in the office, it can follow you around.
Hope everything works out!
Totally agree. The writer-inner should talk to the laywer she’s assigned to and frame it like she’s inquiring about the amount of work she’s doing for the new lawyer, like, “I’m doing a lot of work for X. Was it decided that I should split my time between you both?” Then let the lawyers duke it out for her time.
Absolutely agree with Fosiya and Alley. I’ve been in that position, and I’ve also supervised someone who had to answer to several different people. I relied on them to let me know if they were getting too many competing requests so that we could talk about how to priortize.
Also commenting on the Legal Assistant question… If the tasks he is asking her to complete truly are the job function of someone else in the office, if his requests are sent via email, I would forward to the person who is hired to complete the task, and CC him on the email. This could drop the hint that it’s not your job, without directly confronting him about it.
If it isn’t the kind of place where that would be an appropriate way to handle, I agree with the other commenters that it’s best to leave HR out of the conversation and go to the attorney you are assigned to instead. Maybe something as simple as asking if your role has changed with the new hire, and if you should plan on allotting your time differently to make sure you are meeting both attorneys’ needs?
I’m from Nashville! I’ll send you lots of great suggestions. Nashville does food very very well :).
Lots of dish liquid *also* says “hand soap” on it. Dawn for sure does. I’ve never understood whether that meant “use it for both” or “this is for when you’re hand-washing dishes.”
I agree with Andy 100% about the wedding party question. The fiancé is unfairly calling the shots in this equation. It has nothing to do with being “equal” on both sides. As a bride to be, no one cares if the number is even on each side (as long as there is not a drastic difference). What matters having people you want on your side on your wedding day. I would be hurt and offended. But, I probably would not say anything.
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Andy is right. Huge difference between Burlesque and Stripping. My wife and I have attended a number of Burlesque shows together and both loved them. (Conversely I’ve been to 2 strip clubs and just felt gross afterward and haven’t been back in more than 20 years) Though my wife and I are in a different age demo than them we are friends with a lot of 20-30 somethings who are amazing singers, dancers, choreographers, costume makers, etc. The idea that men are taking mental pics at burlesque shows for their ‘spank bank’ seems way off base. I’ve never looked at it that way. It’s always just been a fun and funny night out for us. Most of the shows we’ve attended have had about 75 percent women in the audience and they were vocal and super supportive of the dancers be they male or female. I’d be behind my wife 100% if she wanted to take part-though that’s kind of easy for me to say since she doesn’t like the spotlight and would have to be dragged up onstage. She’s content to take amazing pics of the performers and share on social media.
I am shocked that Elizabeth took such offense at Andy being supportive of her hypothetical burlesque career. For someone who has show business aspirations and so many good friends in the business, surely some of them have done nude scenes or someday will. Does she have the same low opinion of them as she does of Andy’s supportive stance? And as a writer does that mean Elizabeth will never write a sex scene for fear of violating the actors’ marital vows?
Also she turned Andy’s hypothetical into a personal reality which was not fair to Andy.
I don’t have a low opinion of burlesque at all. I too think it’s an art form as I said many times on the podcast, one that I admire. Just because I admire something doesn’t mean it would be okay for us in our marriage nor does it mean I would judge someone for whom it was okay - perfect example would be performing sex scenes in movies, I don’t think that would be something Andy and I would be okay with between the two of us because of the boundaries we are both well versed with within our marriage, it bears no judgement whatsoever on others who are okay with that in theirs. If you think that conversation wasn’t “fair” then you shouldn’t be listening to an extremely personal podcast about marriage between two married people having honest conversations about things because married people absolutely should discuss all sorts of hypotheticals to find out where everyone stands and where the expectations/boundaries are. That’s a huge part of how Andy and I communicate and it’s actually fun for us. If anyone didn’t like what they heard in that very personal moment between us (which we both felt was an interesting conversation and helped us understand each other more), that is truly on them.
Anyone else feel that Andy was put in a “no win” situation with this hypothetical question? His choices are either 1. support her (which he does but then gets the response “you would feel comfortable with me doing that?!”) or 2. doesn’t support her. Either way he’s getting a negative response from Elizabeth.
Untrue. How you can project how I would’ve responded to a different reaction than the one he gave me is really beyond me.
It never fails that any time I remotely challenge anything that Andy says, I get “called out” (almost always by men) for being difficult, harpy, needy, whiney, unfair etc. Andy and I now tend to not discuss anything remotely conflicting that is personal anymore because of this which to me is sad because it would be nice not to edit, and have the chance to show what a true marriage and relationship looks like but apparently a lot of people do not like to hear women who have voices, even within their own relationship.
This isn’t about gender or your podcast content. It’s about the nature of your argument. We’re trying to tell you the logic of your argument is flawed. Like Joe said above you put Andy in a double bind.
Oh my word, I would love to see how some of these commenters interact with their significant others -they apparently never have a single disagreement or difference of opinion in their relationship. It must be nice.
I read the comments before I got to that part of the podcast and was really not expecting the conversation to be so benign and calm. They both explained themselves well, and where they were coming from with their individual viewpoints.
I’m going to disagree that these comments aren’t rooted in gender bias. You’re saying her logic is flawed and she “trapped” Andy in a no-win situation all because she asked him a question and tried to understand more about why he responded in a surprising way to her.
I actually got an email from that website about six months ago, something about the settings on “my” account (I just clicked through the link and deleted the random cheater dude’s account because I was so annoyed he had used my email address). Luckily I’m not married so don’t need to have an awkward conversation now, with this hacker thing.
Oh and in your hypothetical: the Elizabeth with burlesque ambitions couldn’t have the same beliefs about sexuality/nudity within marriage that present day Elizabeth does, so Andy saying he’d support that Elizabeth doesn’t really conflict with those beliefs… I think? If that makes any sense.
Positive vibes sent as requested!
I should add that I was only commenting on the semantics of the disagreement (basically that I thought it wasn’t a disagreement at heart), not judging Elizabeth’s response or the discussion itself at all. Hope that was already clear, but if it did come off as patronizing, then sorry for putting that out there.
That was clear, you didn’t come off as patronizing at all. Thanks David.
The legal assistant didn’t mention this, but if she has to bill her time, she should not be doing these menial tasks - and nor should the attorney. It may seem petty, but when you are billing in 6 minute increments (as most attorneys do now), your time should not be spent doing administrative tasks. That either loses money for the firm or wastes the client’s money if you are charging them. That’s why most firms have secretaries to handle these tasks. I don’t know what the caller’s role is, but if it’s not administrative, she should talk to HR or preferably her supervisor (if it’s not the attorney she works for) to clear it up.
(and by caller I mean writer-inner - getting this mixed up with TBASH!)
Recently, I was in the wedding of a couple my husband and I are both friends with (and my husband has actually been friends with the good since high school) and when we mentioned that I was in the wedding but he wasn’t someone said, well clearly he considered (your husband) the better friend because he’s not making you be in the wedding. This wedding wasn’t horrible, but another wedding I was in (of one of my bridesmaids) I would totally agree. After that wedding I wished I hadn’t been in the wedding party would’ve been much more fun. I also would’ve saved lots of money. In the case of the writer inner, I don’t think she would’ve minded spending whatever was necessary, but whatever her reason, I would *try* to not take it personal. It definitely sucks (but at least you’ll still be invited to the wedding…) but At the same time, the people in your wedding party aren’t always the ones who stick around, unfortunately…
I’m just here to leave a shameless plug for not having a wedding party at all. I’ve been in four different weddings, including my own, and the only one without drama was the one without a wedding party (luckily that was my wedding). My sister and brother-in-law were our “witnesses” and my brother performed the ceremony. It was simple and everyone who was family felt included. I sent all of my friends handwritten notes in advance telling them how much they mean to me and how I knew that they’d be standing with me in spirit. My husband did not feel the need to take that last step with his friends. In the lead up and on the day it was just . . . simple.
Re: the non-bridesmaid writer inner. First, when I got married, my sister in law was a bridesmaid and I can’t stand her (and vice versa). Had she not been, I would’ve had to deal with comments from my mother in law forever. I really didn’t have a choice and my husband wasn’t the one pushing for her at all, either. Second, I ended up giving a very dear friend the role of reader instead of bridesmaid. Mainly, she has issues with being on time and the thought of her running late on my wedding day just stressed me out.
She’s definitely still on my varsity team. Weddings bring out weird characteristics in you and it could be something like family guilt that’s completely unrelated to her friendship with you. Please don’t let this be the reason your friendship ends.
Regarding the Legal Assistant, she should definitely talk to the attorney to whom she’s assigned. As a (relatively) young attorney I believe 100% that this guy is an asshole. No one is going to notice she’s doing extra work until she gets in trouble for not spending enough time on what she’s really supposed to be doing. Attorneys who make assistants get coffee, make a single copy, etc., are garbage. Plus, this guy is new so it’s likely he has no leverage/influence at the firm. He needs to be put in his place. Immediately.
As an attorney also, I 100% agree with this approach. HR is not the place to take this issue, you need to let your assigned attorney know what this other D*Bag is trying to make you do, he obviously sucks. We deal with this crap all the time at our firm, and it is always most easily resolved by talking with the most senior person involved.
Regarding the Ashley Madison leak, Dan Savage has commented on it the last few weeks (both on his podcast and in his writing), and I really enjoyed what he had to say in his most recent episode: http://www.savagelovecast.com/episodes/461#.Vd5AZLxViko
He gives some good perspectives on what to think about the names being leaked, the people who’s names were leaked, and all that.
I definitely recommend listening, and would love to hear yours/Andy’s (plus any other listeners!) thoughts on it!
Law firm culture varies depending on firm size and specialty, etc. That being said, that new attorney is a dick. The writer should talk to her assigned attorney regarding her priorities and let him put the new guy in his place. Frankly the longer this goes on, the more it will become expected. I also second the comment about billable time. Clients like to see the person with the lowest hourly rate doing administrative tasks. Plus, if the writer has a set number of hours to bill, all those coffee runs are going to add up.
Re: Wedding parties. I see both sides. I think we all think that our big day will be different but every family and friend dynamic poses new and different challenges. There’s probably some family pressure going on and the bride is always going to be bearer of bad news. This too shall pass. The writer should protect her feelings but not dwell on this slight.
Dish soap will dry out your hands, man. Passive aggressively bring in some hand soap?
Tried to listen with my husband because I love the podcast especially the questions and the great advice. My husband had a REALLLLY tough time getting through the 45 minutes of talk about burlesque. There were many what the hell is this podcast comments
I agree with elizabeth about the bridesmaid issue. Having an even number in the bridal party is really important to some people and I have friends whose husbands didn’t have many close friends or family men so they were very limited in the number of bridesmaids they could have. I’m sure it’s similar to what other people have said, and she probably thought that you are a really good friend and would understand her reasoning for not including you more than her family members would.
One of my friends didn’t choose a maid of honor which stung a little but she still let me know where I stood in the bridesmaid ranks by having me give the toast at the reception (she has sisters and would never hear the end from family and them had she chosen someone).
Perhaps there’s another special role coming for you like giving a reading during the ceremony or some other fun role.